Curse

devilkid456 · Apr 27, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Hi i need a good build for my Koss he is a 20W/Mo and i like hammers so it has to use hammer mastery could you guys suggest a good set of spells for him please.

kev read · Apr 27, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I like warrior's Endurance attack spam...

But some of the builds at www.pvxwiki.com are pretty good

Btw /mo on a warrior isnt too good because they dont have the max e or the regen to use spells

I would advise some kind of Earth Shaker Build for a hammer war, though Warrior's Endurance/Power Attack works quite well

zwei2stein · Apr 27, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Earthshaker is what you want: OQkTEzJXzxwGWELgl44VBezVAA

(you might want to replace WY with res sig and pump all points to strength.)

Coloneh · Apr 27, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

melee hero AI sucks, dont even bother unless he is required for something.

distilledwill · Apr 27, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Although as Coloneh says, war heroes are pretty crap, Id agree with Zwei2stein that earthshaker is a pretty useful elite for them to take.

However, Id suggest changing to Paras once you can.

Racthoh · Apr 27, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

The only areas where melee heroes can work well would be places with very little AoE. And in those cases, Earthshaker all the way.

Terrokian · Apr 27, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Ive had a lot of success with Jora

[build=Jora;OQMT0mIT5xweV4r+FAzUbxhGBA]

For whatever reason you need some tanking,she does excel AND use all these skills nicely.Warrior heroes ARE NOT USELESS.People simply do not know how to utilize them to full effect.They are STUCK on AoE heroes.Now I agree AoE is nice,but sometimes you just need a change of style and pace.

Marverick · Apr 27, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Uh no one uses AoE... it's just that Paragon heroes do more damage and have better support. And that build you posted above is nothing but damage... so yea, ok. Sure, if you want a change of style, then go ahead and run 3 Warriors with Flamingos and have fun. But Warrior heroes are still, [relatively speaking], useless.

Racthoh · Apr 27, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

For whatever reason you need some tanking,she does excel AND use all these skills nicely.Warrior heroes ARE NOT USELESS.People simply do not know how to utilize them to full effect.They are STUCK on AoE heroes.Now I agree AoE is nice,but sometimes you just need a change of style and pace.

Melee heroes have pathing issues and flee easily from AoE (which is a huge annoyance with Flail). Any sort of caster or ranged physical doesn't have this problem meaning they will be doing something all the time. As Marverick mentioned this makes paragon heroes far better as they have warrior DPS without the melee AI issues.

Antithesis · Apr 28, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

What Rac and Marv said. Warrior Heroes run around like chickens with their head cut off in AoE. By the time they run to your target, chances are it's already dead, so off it runs to the next...and the cycle continues.

A Paragon can instantly change targets within range and can do more than DPS while doing DPS.

Coloneh · Apr 28, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

For whatever reason you need some tanking,she does excel AND use all these skills nicely.Warrior heroes ARE NOT USELESS.People simply do not know how to utilize them to full effect.They are STUCK on AoE heroes.

I love how every time something is accused of being useless, the first response of people who blindly use whatever is is is to accuse people of not using it right.

melee heros suck? ur doin it wrong
mesmers suck? ur doin it wrong
sundering sucks? ur doin it wrong
healing monks suck? ur doin it wrong
healing hands is bad? ur doin it wrong
your 6-attribute build is bad? ur doin it wrong

Antithesis · Apr 28, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

melee heros suck? ur doin it wrong
mesmers suck? ur doin it wrong
sundering sucks? ur doin it wrong
healing monks suck? ur doin it wrong
healing hands is bad? ur doin it wrong
your 6-attribute build is bad? ur doin it wrong

No no Coloneh ur doing it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

melee heros rock
mesmers rock
sundering rock
healing monks rock
healing hands is leet
your 6-attribute build is teh shit

Fixed it for you

Mesmers can be good but that's beside the point.

Terrokian · Apr 28, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Well I got proph and eotn defeated and still using her,but it may be because I'm a warrior AoE axe build and generally charge in first with a MM and SS(Livia and Olias) that I seem to get better use from her.She holds back for a minute and does exactly as you say.Hits a target guts it and moves on.I'm pretty sure Sabway and Para SF teams can do this all so much faster.But if speed isn't an issue,then enjoyment is.It's something I enjoy and it does work.I have no need to defeat all of something in 10 hours.Now as for AoE areas where your party seems to be constantly attacked by AoE spells and whatnot and you can't get a W/x hero in there,I can understand switching her out for something else.Where are you that you get constant AoE attacks against your party?

zwei2stein · Apr 28, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Well, i think that one warrior in party is nice as diversion for enemies (someone at frontline who would take aoes/dots instead of clustered party). And has some uses (AR trigger for example)

But again, pets and minions can do it as well.

Coloneh · Apr 28, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

yes, having a frontline is usually good, but why would you waste a hero on it. they henchies do it just as bad.

Racthoh · Apr 28, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

Now as for AoE areas where your party seems to be constantly attacked by AoE spells and whatnot and you can't get a W/x hero in there,I can understand switching her out for something else.Where are you that you get constant AoE attacks against your party?

There are other underlying issues than just the AoE thing, it's just the easiest to recognize because your hero isn't doing anything.

Movement is the heart of the problem. There is the pathing issue when the hero refuses to simply go around an enemy to get to the called target. In Hard Mode important targets usually flee and because they move faster it makes it very difficult for the hero to actually do anything. This also results in ranged attacks missing with more frequency. On the flip side when your party is kiting the warriors have to chase, and if your warriors are using Flail they simply aren't producing any damage at all.

I used to use Koss and Goren all the time, and stomped faces on my warrior with those two at my side. Any normal mode area with no AoE was a blast to fight in since everything died really fast. But once I moved onto hard mode and vanquishing the warrior setup became far inferior to the other heroes. I found myself running a water ele hero for the snares just so my own warrior could hit important targets as opposed to calling a target for the AI while I wailed on something else. Everything is just easier without a melee in the group when it comes to the more difficult content, with few exceptions.

What else I've noticed from running warriors:

1. You can't use Flail. Every situation where my hero could use Flail with no downside was an encounter I would win with or without an IAS on my hero. Once something starts to flee, Flail has to be disabled. Read; once I enter hard mode Flail has to be disabled for fights with non-physicals.

2. Earthshaker is king. If the enemy can't move every problem melee heroes face is gone. KDing as many enemies as possible is the best way to eliminate these issues.

3. Godspeed with Soldier's Stance is the only way to get an IAS without the enemy fleeing. You gimp your elite, forced to the paragon secondary, but will stop the enemy from fleeing. It's a very ugly spec but if your warrior isn't hitting anything they're useless anyway. I've yet to test Renewing Swing with Tiger Stance or other such alternatives because not using warriors ensures you're not running gimped bars to begin with.

4. Adrenaline skills are not used as frequently as they should be. If the hero knew "For Great Justice!" with Dragon Slash meants 20 seconds of +38 damage I'd give them a second look.

Terrokian · Apr 28, 2008, 09:12 AM // 09:12

I'll have to pay closer attention to her.Generally I always hit what ever was closest and hacked my way to the rear.I'll see if I can't get a movie of her fighting and get a closer look at this.Usually I would hit first and she finishes the opponent.

draugr · Apr 28, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Agree with others on melee heroes, and if you really want a melee, consider an axe or scythe sin, but if you must have a hammer, maybe try this W/Me:

[enraging charge] [for great justice] [flail] [devastating hammer] [crushing blow] [symbolic strike] [signet of disruption] [signet of distraction]

If you don't like the idea of them running around snared, remove [flail] for [leech signet] or [hex eater signet] or [resurrection signet]. You can also replace the elite with [earth shaker] if you like. I prefer devastating on a hero.

Here is an aoe axe sin hero:

[critical eye] [way of the master] [critical defenses] [way of perfection] [cyclone axe] [triple chop] [flail], the last slot can be

[dismember] [keen chop] [malicious strike]

or you can use [eviscerate] intead of [triple chop] and use either [keen chop] or [malicious strike] to round it out. The AI runs this kind of sin build very well in my experience, it is as durable as a warrior, and if you are fronting your heroes with a toon that can spam [great dwarf weapon] the sin is almost worth a slot over ranged alternatives.

Richardt · Apr 28, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Hero warriors are just bad with Flail. Everytime I brought a warrior hero I always had to micro it. And when you do micro it, and they need to move fast, you'll need to micro Enraging Charge.

But if you need/want to use a hero build, Earthshaker is a nice elite-but I'm a Triple Chop guy. Just throw on Triple Chop, Cyclone Axe, Lion's Comfort and some support skills and you're good to go. If you're needing the warrior hero to just stand there, bring Flail and Dolyak Signet-micro both and they'll have 90% reduced movement rate so they won't be going anywhere soon. However they'll still try to move out of AoE and will often let an enemy sneak on by.

Terrokian · Apr 28, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Thinking of doing and experiment.

[build=Me;OQASEZJT2kgP7gQFsiGWXF8V]
[build=Jora;OQMT0mIT5xweV4r+FAzUbxhGBA]
[build=Koss;OQASEZJPG2rCfNqQV2rSFoC]
[build=Tahlkora;OwYT003C1RjM93Ib67GyIggGBA]

Not sure what henchies I'll choose,but thinking Talon Silverwing,Lina,and Mhenlo.Try out different areas and modes.See what happens and post it back here.